My great-great-grandmother, Ellen Holmes of Pemberton near Wigan, made various notes in a ‘casting book’ – a 100-page quarto hardbacked notebook – which had belonged to her younger sister Elizabeth who had died in 1848, aged 15. Ten years previously, Ellen marked her name with a cross – as did her husband – when they married. It may be that Elizabeth had been teaching her to write, or to improve her writing and spelling. On the very last page someone wrote an address: 
Joseph Holmes
Hollow Flat
neer Minma Coal
and copperas works
neer Newcastle New
South wales
Australia
Naturally, I just HAD to search t’net for him: and much to my surprise, found a remarkably close match. It seems a suburb of Newcastle – north of Sydney – may have been named after him!
Name Origin: The suburb took its name from Joseph Holmes an early land-holder and settler of the area. Early Land Grants: Portion 49 (Teralba Parish) granted to Joseph Holmes 19 February 1895. This 100 acre grant lay west of Apple Tree Road (formerly known as Minmi Road). Early Subdivisions: D.P.3442; 7/3/1898. Subdivision bounded by Elizabeth, William and Margaret Streets and Apple Tree Road. Part of Portion 49. Joseph Holmes divided IO acres of his grant into 250 allotments, which were sold at 20 pounds each (10 pound deposit, and 8% interest on quarterly balance). Early Settlers: Joseph Holmes and his wife Mary, although not among the very early settlers of the area, were important to the town’s development The Holmes’ settled with their large family on 10 acres at “Holy Flat“, Estelville. The family kept a dairy and supplied Minmi with milk. Joseph worked in the mines. It is believed that he and his son Samuel introduced a method for top-holing and firing coal to Seaham No. I Colliery. The Holmes also derived an income from their land and building dealings.
So, then, what relation was Joseph to my gg-g’ma Ellen? In 1851, Ellen (now married to a coal-miner, James Miller) is living in Marsh Green, a hamlet on the edge of Pemberton near Wigan. Nearby (according to the 1851 census) a Joseph Holmes, 19-year-old coal-miner, is lodging at the ‘Duke of York’, The head of the household is Simon Miller – ‘Victualler and Coal Miner’, living with his wife, son (yet another coal-miner) and daughter. I believe Simon was the brother of Ellen’s husband, and named his daughter Cicely after their mother. HER maiden name was Melling: and another lodger was Thomas Melling, aged 26: – perhaps her nephew? Also lodging with them were Levy (15) and Samuel Holmes (24). Could all three be brothers or cousins of Ellen? There are two other links with New South Wales. 
A few pages earlier is another, similar address, this time for a John Holme – and Ellen had a brother John, born in 1823. 
– and, earlier in the book, an entry reads:
“Mary Ann Holme left Wigan October 26th year of our lord 1863 [or is it 66?] to Joine the Ship Siroco” Another internet hunt for that ship turns up a reference to another family who sailed on her:
[they] “set sail on the ship “Sirocco” from London on Thursday November 5th 1863, bound for Sydney Town, N.S.W. The “Sirocco” arrived in quarantine on January 28th 1864,and was inspected by the board of immigration on February 5th.”
– it appears the Sirocco was on a regular run between Britain and Australia – settlers one way, sheep the other, perhaps? But returning to Holmesville … this, I think, was the home of Joseph’s son Samuel, in the 1900’s:
(image from https://history.lakemac.com.au/page-local-history.aspx?pid=1085&vid=20&tmpt=showmedia&narid=48&cat=Photograph&medid=5943&objid=5846 – that site has lots of other photographs including one photograph of the family outside it here
[see an update here: https://branchesnroots.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/joseph-holmes-of-holmesville-an-update/]
Roots and branches 
Joseph Holmes married Mary Clarke Woodhead. These were my great , great grandparents.
They had many children . One was Charlotte, who married Henry Longworth, my great grandparents. Charlotte Street is one of the most prominent streets of Holmesville. The suburb still retails much of the old style charm with little commercial development present.
One of the grandchildren of Joseph Holmes was a Sherlock Holmes. He was a cousin to my grandfather, Joseph Henry Longworth. Joseph Henry Longworth married Linda Merle Longworth, was has 3 children who gre to adulthood: Nita Merle, Gwenda Betty and Evan Jack Longworth.
Nita married Ron Mason and had a son, Terry.
Gwenda married Jeffrey Johnson and had Ken, Jennifer, Trevor and Linda.
Evan married a couple times and has had about 8 children, but a couple were adopted from one of his wives.
All of these offspring would be aged between about 45-65 now in 2013 and many are parents and probably grandparents.
Many remain in the Newcastle and Hunter area or close by.
There are records of the family in self published family history books and in a museum in the West Wallsend school.
WOW! This is exciting! So – if Joseph Holmes was (perhaps) my gg-grandmother Ellen Holme’s brother, then we will be third cousins?
Do you have any information on where Joseph Holmes was born? I read somewhere that he was thought to have come from St. Helens’s in Lancashire, which would make it very unlikely that he was my gg-g’ma’s brother (as far as I can tell, they lived in Pemberton near Wigan all their lives and in fact my cousin still lives there!), but he could still be her cousin.
I will email you …
There is a book entitled Homesville, One Mans Vision by Lillian Price and another by TG Reynolds called Early West Wallsend, Its Early People and places. Both are full of information about the Holmes’. I am grateful to Ellen Holmes G G Grandaughter for her painstaking research into all this.
It looks to me like John and Joseph were Uncle and nephew repectively if I am on the right wavelength.
GM GG Grandson of John Holmes
Hi!
Yes, you are absolutely right – John was Joseph’s uncle, but only 8 years older than him – assuming our research is correct, of course!
So we are, I think, fourth cousins? Are you in the UK?
Su
John Holmes according to the Heralds list of immigrants in 1856 had a relative in the colony being a cousin William Winstanley in Sydney. Any one got any ideas on this I wonder?
GM
I’ve uncovered a possibility. A William Winstanley ‘alias Banter’ from Wigan arrived in Sydney Cove in January 1833 aboard the Mary (4) – sentenced to 7 years for stealing a watch. He was aged 20, a weaver and grocer. I’m struggling to find a baptism for him. Ancestry / FamilySearch.org have a near-perfect match: born 1st June, baptised 30th June 1811 in Wigan, son of Samuel Winstanley and Margaret Hill … except that there’s no corresponding entry in the Lancashire OPR – but the years from 1809 to 1813 are missing for Wigan All Saints,
HOWEVER I did then strike gold: a search on Ancestry for other baptised children of Samuel and Margaret Winstanley turns up an entry for Margaret, their fourth daughter, born 2nd and baptised 10th Nov. 1799 – and gives the mother’s parents as Samuel and Ellen Hill .. the same as John’s mother (Sally/Sarah Hill)’s parents.
[postscript: correction: I think William was the GRANDSON of Samuel and Margaret (nee Hill). His parents were more probably Samuel ( b abt 1783, first son of Samuel and Margaret) and Margaret BIBBY: they married in February 1805 and had 6 daughters and 3 sons by 1826]
Hello all !
This is just an update to my branch of the family tree. I believe that I do have a book, somewhere ?? , with more information regarding the above people, but there are a couple of updates that book, printed aout 20 years ago, would not have. I had my house destroyed by fire and I am unsure what is saved. I believe I have some still.
It is getting a little confusing who is whom, without that book although I believe David Longworth, above, is a second cousin. Evan Jack Longworth also has a son called David Longworth. This is a direct cousin, along with his siblings, John, Stephen and Diane, and a couple others and an adoptee by Evan’s second marriage.
My younger brother, Trevor Allen Johnson 4/8/1961 passed away in the Sydney, Australia region 17/11/2013, I believe. He had a wife, Anne,(nee Crittenden). There were no children.
In the Newcastle, NSW region, My mother, in direct Holmes line, Gwenda Betty Johnson ( nee Longworth) 10 September 1930 passed 4/ 4 / 2004.
Her father, Joseph Henry Longworth passed ( as my memory serves) 13/Sept/ 1974 . His wife, my Grandmnother Linda Merle Longworth, nee Manuel, 12/6/1906 passed 1/October/ 1999. ( if inaccurate, year 2000). They all passed away in the Newcastle, NSW area where they lived.
My older brother, Ken, and I (Jennifer) also had no children. So I am trusting that someone may note these snippets for history.
Only my sister, Linda, had children: Amelia Grace, Joseph Raymond and Francis Elliot , all with the surname: Bullard. In 2014, they are all teenagers.
Joseph Holmes’ great, great grand daughter.
Jennifer ( Jenny)
Linda Merle Longworth, nee Manuel. b 1906 ( Manuel and Ferris were her family names with many ties in the Armidale- New England region of NSW ).
I am henry & charlottes great grandson, my grandfather is James preston nesbit Longworth who married merlea Drew, and had 2 sons Robert & keven, im kevens eldest son
Pingback: Joseph Holmes of Holmesville: an update | Roots and branches
Wow, so strange I stumbled across this!
I’m Nathan Longworth-Gray.. I’m Evan’s grandson, Diane’s son. Would love to know more about the history of the family
My uncle John Longworth (one of Evan’s sons) lives in the Barnsley/Holmesville area.. He’s married to Denise Longworth (Copeland before marriage), who has 3 children.. Zac Holmes, Shannon Holmes and Ben Longworth. Although Zac passed away in 2007 at the age of 18.
My name is Diane BlissCooper granddaughter of Ivy Jane Longworth who was the daughter of Henry Longworth and Charlotte Holmes I live in the far north coast of new South wales
Hello Diane ! I mean, Cousin!
( I am not sure how that works a few generations down the chain, but if we were our grandparents, we would be first cousins!) .
As soon as I saw the word “Bliss”, the name “George Bliss” come to mind. Is that recognisable to you? It seems imprinted into my memory, but for no particular reason unless in my former searches, or in a pre 1972 discussion with my grandfather, Joseph Longworth, son of Charlotte and Henry, above.
It sounds that you and I are the same generation, but with the brother (Joseph Henry)-sister(Ivy Jane) each starting their own family threads, from their parents, Henry and Charlotte, our great grand-parents….. and Charlotte, the daughter of Joseph Holmes.
I have found this link that seems to explain you, David (comment above ) and me (and Nathan above is a bit closer on my thread). We all have {Charlotte Holmes and Henry Longworth} a married couple in common, if I have worked this out correctly.
http://www.geni.com/people/Joseph-Longworth/6000000014572580555
That link will also mention other siblings to your side’s; Ivy-Jane // the above, David’s side; James , known as Pres // and the above, Nathan’s and my side; Joseph Henry. There was also Hazel, Horace and Dulcie.
I am still living very close from Holmesville, NSW Australia, ( Newcastle – Lake Macquarie Region ) where all those in my post here have some link. I am currently only about 15 km away.
I never did get around to meeting the nearer gents (David and Nathan), who have posted above.
I have lost track of how Su or GM fit in… We need a whiteboard the size of a wall to work it out !
Not wanting to post an email address on a website, I am happy for Su to pass on my email address to you, and the gents to say hello again.
David and I were writing at one stage, and …. well, life gets in the road and we lost the continuum. We should do something about saying hello when we can !
Jennifer (Jenny )
George Bliss was my grandfather also my eldest brother was George Bliss I do remember Joe Longworth when I was young and of course Dulcie his sister.Who is Su would like to say hallo what can we arrange.
Didn’t know I’ve so many relatives down under shouldn’t have left you lot without t v’s I’m the gt grandson of Martha Elizabeth Holmes John ‘s daughter sent emails to the library and been in touch again with Lillian price feel free to contact me
Hello. Somehow I saw some of this conversation on facebook at some time. Now I accidentally have come across it again. I am Jennifer’s sister. I am just adding to this because of some strange things I have come across.
Firstly, we are direct descendants of Holmes’ on both my father and mother’s side. Both sides of my family had a lot of relatives around Lancashire (as well as some other places including numerous ones in and around London) before they migrated to opposite sides of Australia. I really was curious to find out if we actually have some common ancestors from both mum and dad’s side. It is possible.
If that is not bizarre enough, the Winstanley name really rang bells in my head. My ex husband has many Winstanley anscestors from Surrey. (Therefore they are related directly to my children) They also immigrated here from Surrey UK and strangely enough were living in the same parts of Australia as my great grandmother on the Holmes side. 🙂 In fact, their descendants went to the same school at the same time as my grandma even though I had always thought they originated in Sydney!
Last piece of trivia for the day is that John Holmes also rang a bell for me. He was on the same ship as Joseph coming over from UK (in 1856) aboard the ship “Herald” but as far as they knew, they were not related. (or did not admit it) By the way, Joseph (25 years old) could not read or write and Mary his wife(19 years old) could both read and write at the time of their arrival in Australia. The John I am writing about was 4 years older that Joseph and from is it Masgrove ?? in Lancashire. I could not really read that writing. He was labelled as being of bad character on the ship. His parents were both dead , William (his father) and a scribble which might have start with S for his mother. Oh now, I get the surprise! I looked it up. His relative in the colony was Winstanley in the Sydney region!! Whereas, Joseph and his wife said they have no relatives in the colony. The notes say that John was charged with stealing pork (I think) It is very difficult to read. I would be happy to send you the original copy to Su. Su, are you the original writer of this blog? This is more confusing than my family tree 🙂 And where do you live now? Thanks.
Linda Bullard (nee Johnson)
PS You’ll see our tree grew yesterday. Nathan’s (who wrote one of the above responses) brother Andrew, married Jacqui.
Hi Linda I’m Brian I can confirm john Holmes (my gt gt grandfather)was Joseph’s uncle his mother was john’s elder sister.they both married Yorkshire girls met while working in the Yorkshire pits came back to marsh green Wigan briefly then left for Australia (herald) my gt grandmother was Martha Elizabeth born teralba n.s.w try to contact Lillian price in Holmesville she wrote the book called one man’s vision gives the history of the town and family
Thanks. Last week I confirmed the relationship as a descendant of John matched DNA with a descendant of Joseph.
On the Winstanleys, my ex is descended from Winstanleys of Wigan. It’s pretty weird researching Holmes and seeing Winstanleys keep popping up. I even had a living Winstanley from Wigan write to me!
Hi Linda,just to confirm john’s elder sister was Hannah mother of Joseph same family just one or two little mistakes. The cousin they visited in Sydney William winstanley was I believe a wiganer can’t find any southern connection.he was serving a ten year sentence for stealing a watch (hardly your Ned Kelly) he had a nickname it was banter name wrang a bell don’t forget Martha Elizabeth Holmes was still alive when I was a little lad . be in touch again.p. s. I also want to know who su is certainly part of the family but Scottish born ?
My friend Vera, who lives in Wigan where the Holmes family originated, is descended from Sarah Ellen Holmes, born 1857 who was born in Australia one year after her parents emigrated along with Joseph Holmes and his wife. I think William Winstanley, born 1813, was the grandson of Margaret Hill and Samuel Winstanley as mentioned above, and that Margaret Hill was the sister of Sarah Ellen Holmes’ grandmother, Sarah ‘Sally’ Hill.
I’m researching Vera’s family tree for her. She will be very happy to read about Holmesville. She won’t be in Wigan for too much longer though; she is moving to join her daughter on the Isle of Skye next year – lucky her!
Sorry, should have asked. Is there any chance of buying a copy of Lillian Price’s book, or is it out of print? I’d love to give it to Vera as a Christmas present.
Hi Angie
I had a look on AbeBooks.co.uk (my go-to for such treasures) and drew a blank. I did find a single copy of the second book mentioned, but in Aus, and not currently shipping to the UK: I hope to see my daughter who lives there next year but that might be a bit late to collect a Christmas present!!! Where is Vera’s daughter? Pre-lockdown, I walked on Skye with a group 2-3 times a month – hopefully one day soon I can return 🙂 She and I will be very distant cousins -her Sarah Ellen would – if I’ve done my sums right – have been my g-g g’mother’s cousin.
Su
Hi Su, thanks for your reply. I did find a few pages of the book on Ancestry and am now trying to find the link to print off some copies .
Vera’s daughter Kim lived next door to me for 4 years near Edinburgh. She moved with her partner to Skye only a couple of weeks’ ago. Vera and I would hit the charity shops and have lunch when she came up from Wigan. Hopefully we’ll do the same in Portree next year. Kim now lives near in Achachork, near Portree.
I’ll pass on this link to Vera but she probably won’t get onto the website without help from Kim next year. I’m making up a family story in PowerPoint to print off for her. I’m glad to find something of interest in her tree; her husband’s side has lots of interesting events and people but I think Holmesville is definitely up there to rival her in-laws 🙂
Angie
Hi Angie
I’ve not been to Achachork but have visited nearby Dùn Gerashader and Dun Torvaig. Sadly, the U3a broch-baggers blog seems to have been wiped, but a much abbreviated note of our walk is here: https://stayathome2010.blogspot.com/2016/11/tuesday-trampings.html – from which you will gather that they aren’t the most exciting sites we’ve visited!!! A pity Vera isn’t related on my father’s side: I just learned my grandmother’s cousin nearly had her throat cut by her lunatic husband who DID succeed in murdering his two older daughters, though I’m not sure if they were hers or by one of his previous wives. An experience I would certainly rather not have!
On the 23rd April 2021, Evan Jack Longworth, son of Joseph Henry Longworth and Linda Merle Longworth, nee Manuel, passed away from respiratory disease and cancer.
He was from Charlestown, in the Newcastle / Lake Macquarie region, New South Wales Australia.
Both his sisters, Nita Merle Mason (nee Longworth) and Gwenda Betty Johnson (nee Longworth 1930-2004) had previously passed away also.
Edit EVAN JACK LONGWORTH..
( don’t you just hate auto correct sometimes?)
son of Joseph Henry Longworth, who married Charlotte Holmes, daughter of Joseph Holmes.
I got stuck on the maths. 10 acres into 250 lots means 25 lots from just one acre?? Could that be a mistake?
Hi Linda -I see what you mean – the text comes from here: https://history.lakemac.com.au/page-local-history.aspx?pid=1085&vid=20&tmpt=narrative&narid=48. In the UK, though, an “allotment” means a small plot often used for growing vegetables by people who don’t have enough space in their gardens – Wikipedia says “An allotment garden, often called simply an allotment, or in North America, a community garden, is a plot of land made available for individual, non-commercial gardening or growing food plants. Such plots are formed by subdividing a piece of land into a few or up to several hundred parcels that are assigned to individuals or families.” Perhaps that’s what they were for?
Highly unlikely as there were no houses or population other than perhaps indigenous back then. There was plenty of space. I think it would be quarter acre blocks to build upon.
Hi
My name is Sherrie-lee Evans, Joseph Holmes was my 2nd great-grandfather. The line of decent is via his oldest son Samuel Holmes [1959-1945], Samuel’s fifth daughter Sybilla Myrtle Holmes [1901-1975], and Sybilla’s third daughter (my mother) Betty Mary Browne [1930-2015]. I have a comprehensive family tree on Ancestry, if that is easier. Recently doing some research on Joseph Holmes I now think that his mother was Hannah Holme (also referred to in the records as Ann) and his father was a weaver named Samuel Hill. Since Hannah’s mother was a Sally Hill I wondered if there might be a relationship there? Does this line up with anyone else’s research?
Regards Sherrie